I consider this to be the thorniest question for freelance voice over talent, ’cause it opens up a can of worms that leads all over the place — into the realms of what constitutes a free market, what IS capitalism, where do unions fit into the picture, what variables enter into YOUR formula for setting rates, and most of all:  how do you guage your own self-worth?

‘Not to get too deep on ya here, but this can get real philosophical.  Luckily the respondents had their heads on straight.

For instance, Paul Strikwerda said:  “…My fee reflects my experience, expertise and my expenses on one hand, and a realistic sense of my value in the market place on the other. For this I need facts about the cost of doing business, the client’s evaluation processes and competitive activity. This allows me to calculate my price floor, the point below which my service should not be sold or I won’t turn a profit…”

Jodi Krangle stated:  “…I do have a minimum fee. Once that’s met, it’s a matter of weighing the customer’s needs and my own and seeing where they meet. There’s a magical, mystery convergence somewhere in there..”

I like that. You really should read the rest of Jodi’s comments.  It captures my sentiment exactly…but then so did Craig Burnett:  “…While I have a price in my head that I’d like to meet, I always try to remain flexible.  That doesn’t mean I’ll lowball…I’ve turned down a LOT of work simply by saying, “Thanks anyway, and let me know when your budgets improve.”  But I’ve nabbed a bunch of clients by understanding that sometimes their budgets are stupidly low, and sometimes they have extra dough that they’ll pass along…”

Sometimes you have to make exceptions, and sometimes it really pays dividends.  Like Jeff Conwell:  “…While I try not to even crack the mic for less than $150, I recently saw a script on a pay to play that was so good, I auditioned without even looking at the pay. I got the booking and the pay was only $50. The good news was it was for an agency that I have a strong relationship with and it really help their small client and in the end, strengthened our relationship further…”

Since I was the first one to post on this question, many responded to my statement that I’m not union (yet).  I think most of those who responded here are not union, and for instance, Robin W. acknowledged that:   “…I am not Union.  I have a set rate sheet, but look at every client’s situation.   Some don’t have a lot of money are upstart companies, or are having it rough with the economy   For these clients I work within their budget, not only does this help them out financially, but cultivates a great relationship…”

Dana Marks also gave a tip of the hat to the unions:  “…I start with the union scale and work from there, depending on the scope of the job and the pocket depth of the client.  I try to be fair about it and not leave too much money on the table…”

Arnaly A. summed-up what a lot of us go through when we consider the rate setting issue:  “…I try to find our as much as I can about the project and the client’s budget before quoting. Then I have a minimum rate that I will work for. If that standard is not met, I don’t even audition. After deciding if I will audition, I take this points into consideration for defining my rates:

- Purpose of the job (national commercial, psa, narration, etc)
- How big is the company I will be working for (if known)
- Possibility of repeat business.
- Have I work before with this client?
- What feedback does he or she have?
- I compare the client’s budget with how much I am being paid in the currents job I have and go slightly higher in order to try to increase my rates.

All of these parameters help me decide if I will raise or lower the rates in comparison to the client’s budget.

I’m not going to go on…all you have to do is go to the VOAToday Week-3 question, and bask in the collective wisdom of the VO community.  Even though VOAToday is but a September memory, I’m leaving up the site for a few more weeks, so everyone gets to see all the great responses you gave.  Thanks!

CourVO

I agree wholeheartedly with his argument.  But even  he admits people who lowball are often newbies who just want to get their foot in the door.  Been there?  yeah, me too.  I had NO IDEA what to charge when I started out.

No matter how much you agree with David or Paul Strikwerda or any of a number of other erudite and well-versed apostles for this point of view, the low-balling will not likely stop.  There will always be the poor.  I”m not recommending that we give up the fight.  Just prepare that the battle will  never end.

Niche Business Model

I had an interesting chat yesterday with a guy who’s developed an enterprising business model.

He’s found a niche that would require the use of voice actors.  The venue is long-format narrations, and he admits the pay would fall into the “lowball” category..that, after we had a talk on Skype and I explained it to him.

He’s not looking for excellent quality. But he’s pretty sure he wants human  readers.

His idea is text to speech with REAL narrators, not the synthetic voices that are making inroads in some areas of our business. The copy is mostly business documents…pdf’s, spreadsheets,  analyses, proposals, technical reads, and other content generated by any of an endless number of offices in an endless number of companies in hundreds of cities across our nation.

His argument is that most of the people who are supposed to READ those documents don’t have the time, and would rather have someone read the document TO them.  He believes the listener is not too discerning, and won’t mind if it’s not a totally professional read.

Is he right?  Is this the kind of thing a newbie should take on as an “intern”, for minimal pay, while he/she practices?  Could a voice-actor take this on as a successful “niche”?

I’d like to hear what you think about it.

In the meantime, here’s the website to Convert Text Speech.

CourVO

Still…it’s nice to have a starting point, a reference point, a standard of some sort, and yes, the union rate sheet is one of those standards.

While you’re encouraged to devise your own formula, there is not shortage of available rate sheets for voice over talent.  I’m listing 20+ sites below that will give you a starting point.  I’ve visited and qualified each of the following links:

The VoiceOverResourceGuide

AFTRA Union Rates (scroll to bottom of page for links to Radio, TV, etc)

SAG Commercial Contract FAQ

Voices.com and Voices.com and .pdf doc

Voice123.com

Edge Studio -NYC

Producers Handy Dandy rates

Body Tone Multimedia

RGM  (Australia)

PieHole (UK)  How NOT to Quote for VO Work 
PieHole: Quoting for VO work

Animated VoiceOver Rates from Alliance Online

Payscale.com

VoiceOverXtra (by James Alburger) Part I
VoiceOverXtra (by James Alburger) Part II

Big Fish Media

World Wide Voices

INDIVIDUAL VO Talent EXAMPLES/RESOURCES:

Kevin Sanderson

Arielle Delisle -  Having the Guts to Charge a Fair Rate

Paul Strikwerda – 10 Consequences of Predatory Pricing

Graffitti Studio

Richard Heathcote (UK)

Todd Shick (Canada)

Voice-Over-Training.org (video by Bill DeWees)

Dulcet Tones (Australia)

Crayon Mouth

7 Tips to Setting Freelance Rates

Do you have any other resources you’d like to share?

CourVO

There would just be no sense in trying to write a separate blog article for each of the tidbits I have, so please peruse the list of links below for some incredible goings-on in our business right now, and if you feel so moved, contribute to the dialogue.  My job is to try to keep the information flowing so you can be in the know!

DEFINING YOUR PLACE

Lots of discussions seem to be popping right now concerning the VO marketplace.  The conversations are verging into also sorts of issues:  rates, your perceived value in the market, unions, freelancing, certification, agencies…all revolving around what is fair compensation in today’s world of VO, and your place in it.

To that end, top VO Pro Joe Cipriano inserted an incredibly erudite article into the conversation we have going on in the VO Friends FaceBook Group.  If you are not a member, just do a search for the Voice-Over Friends group, and request access.  I’ll approve you in a snap.  When you go to the site, scroll down to the thread that starts with me saying:  “Friends: The threads calling out…”.  There are 45+ comments here, and Joe’s is among them.  These are incredibly pertinent discussions.  Be a part.

Also, the discussion about fair pay in the LinkedIn Group:  “Setting VO Rates” is still raging, and if you take the time to read…the give ‘n’ take will open your eyes to many points of view…all worth considering.  The discussion about “Insulting Rates” has more than 180 entries!

SEEKING EXCELLENCE

My voice-over friend in Social Media, Terry Daniel, has written a wonderful article on how you should “Surround Yourself with the Extraordinary“.  Terry addresses the negativity that can grip a community, especially in terrible economic times.  Well worth a read.

THE BASICS

Cairo-based voice-actor Mahmoud Taji reminds us of the incredible security, normality, and abundance we all have here in the US (UK and elsewhere) that we take for granted.  Although he and his family are surviving an extremely volatile situation on the outskirts of Cairo, he’s dealing with shortages and a lot of uncertainty.  I’m not sure we would all be so sanguine as he is.  Read Mahmoud’s travails in an article on VoiceOverXtra.com.

PROFILING

Lately, I’ve been doing a lot of research online.  Particularly FaceBook and LinkedIn.  My travels bring me in contact with a lot of your VO websites and FaceBook profiles.  Frankly, I’m astonished at how many accomplished VO pros neglect their profiles.

I’m no SEO wizard, but I understand the value of clearly stating your title in high-profile areas where you have an online presence.  In a number of cases, I’ve had to drill down quite deep to see if a certain person is even a VO talent.  Almost nothing on their FB or LinkedIn profile tipped me off.  Only when I’ve done a Google search or followed a few links have I been able to find out that.

Please visit the profile you configured when you first joined FaceBook, LinkedIn, Voices.com, V123, Twitter….ANYWHERE that you have an online presence.  Somewhere in that profile, you should be clearly stating that you are a VOICE OVER, a VO talent, a voice-over actor, a voice-actor…something like that should be a given in your profile.

The sum total of your online presence will raise you to a threshold at some point where you start getting noticed consistently.  Over the weekend, I was emailed an offer from an overseas production company, seeking more English-speaking VO talent.  They just wanted to know if they could add my name to their database.  Uh…YEAH!

LOOKING AT YOU

Finally, I invite you to check out my CourVO FaceBook Page.  I’ve configured the photos at the top to appear as though it’s one big “Dave” peering at you when you see the homepage.  I think it brings a very personal feel to the page, and if you want to know how it’s done,  just email me, and I’ll walk you through it.

Have a great week!

CourVO

I’m not sure.

But I DO know that recent discussions about rates for VO work are getting more intense.

Take for instance the public LinkedIn group I started called “Setting VO Rates”.  An initial post reflecting disdain for low rates, at last count had more than 150 posts. The dialogue drifts back and forth in a passionate and philosophical thread that at times gets testy, but is more marked by a roundhouse discussion that goes DEEP into the core of this question.  If you have the time, take a half-hour and read through every word.  Lots of great points made on all sides.

Also, on the FaceBook group “Voice-Over Friends” (yep, ‘started that one, too), one of the members posted a couple of instances of VO talent who have existing ads on Ebay that offer rates with which the member took issue.

Never before have I seen members of the VO community so willing to vocalize their feelings on this issue.  Clearly the voice over business is in the throes of changes that are challenging old paradigms…rewriting established assumptions…and forcing a hard look at the marketplace.

Freelancers of all walks traditionally struggle with setting a level of compensation that they feel is commensurate with their worth.  It’s a highly individualized cipher.  Typically, a great deal of acceptance is granted all around.  Those entering the profession usually accept a different scale than the seasoned pro.

Lately, however, even talent with a mature portfolio seem to be edging downward in their asking price.

Should the market seek its own level?…or should minimums be enforced?

Do the so-called P2P sites contribute to this bickering,?… or are they merely designing new acceptable standards?

I take no sides for now, nor am I sure, yet, where my allegiance lies…but whatever the discussion…maybe we can all gain from a tempered discussion, and eschew polarizing statements, and inflammatory language?

CourVO

One of the most recent ones was initiated by Boston area Production Director Matt Forrest, and over the last few days, now has more than 95 comments.

But not just any comments.  What you will find is probably the most exhausting, thorough, and philosophical dissection of the quandary over rates I’ve ever seen.  Why are rates being driven down?  Should we work towards a minimum fee schedule for the good of our business, or should we let the free market have its way?

If this issue interests you at all…this is THE MOTHER of all discussions on setting VO rates.  It’s civil, deep, comprehensive, the best I could hope-for in social media, and with the attitude I would wish all intelligent, concerned voice over talents could engage in.

Since setting the value of your worth in the marketplace is one of the most bedeviling challenges in voice over work (indeed, all of freelance work), here’s what I suggest you do:  Reserve 30-45 minutes, follow this link on “….To Call This Rate Insulting….”, read, and get a true education in rates AND civility.  Kudos especially to Paul Strikwerda and Elizabeth Grattan, not to mention Matt for starting the whole thing.

Seriously, this dialog is SO far-ranging, that it may decide, once-and-for-all how you define your worth in the VO market.

CourVO

Lately, there’s been some lively discussion about pricing long-format narrations (with some side-notes about how the industry is in the throes of trying to decide how much it wants to pay).

You can find the discussion HERE if you are a LinkedIn member.  If not, you should be. It’s one of the “Big 4″ social media sites, and it’s free.

Also, my partner in Social Media ventures — Terry Daniel – has posted a new YouTube video about FOURSQUARE.  Terry thinks FourSquare is the best thing since graham crackers, and talks about it in his video on SocialMediaVO.com.

I’ll have some video of my Social Media teleseminar with Edge Studio — recorded on my FLIP  during the session — in the next blog.

CourVO

The arguments can get quite philosophical — wrapped up in value judgements of self-worth, market conditions, and even personal relationships.

I’ve heard ‘em all.  I especially love the hard ‘n’ fast rules that always seem to come from the highly successful long-time voice actors who typically will say something like:  “….I never even turn on my mic for less than $450…”

Well that’s just all fine and good.  Did you start with that?

Those of us still struggling to keep a daily flow of work…who are developing a full stable of clients…who are ever seeking the threshold of fair pay for hard work… THOSE kind of hard ‘n’ fast rules are elusive.   At least they are for me.

Let me relate a story that just happened to me:

The call came out of nowhere.  A local producer wanted to hire me to be the voice of a conference being held in Vegas…I quoted directly from my rate sheet, and he seemed happy with that, AND my work.  All good all around.

Then he asked if I could refer him to a voice actor of the female gender.  He had another project, and needed a certain type of voice.

I returned to him a couple of names and contact information.

One of the referrals — a seasoned voice actor with a sterling reputation — returned a thank you, and continued to keep me in the loop with communications back and forth.

Then came the e-mail today.   She quoted him a price for the project they were negotiating, and then he returned to her an email ATTACHING MY RATE SHEET. She then very nicely mentioned in an email to me that she hoped she hadn’t scared-off my client because her rate was “…significantly higher than mine.”

OUCH!

Reactions:

– The client faux pas’d by sharing my rate sheet in the first place (I told him so)

– I launch into a gut-wrenching rationalization of my rate sheet

– I also launch into a soul-searching re-evaluation of what I’m worth and what I charge

On the VO-BB some time ago, the notion of “SPINE” became popular.  Rightly so.  The idea being that only those Voice actors with spine will stand up and ask for the price they truly think they’re worth.  Raise the bar.  Take charge.  Have chutzpah.

Great!…but there’s just this one caveat….

CourVO

Let me just reprint another comment made by a close personal friend here in Las Vegas.  A guy who’s successfully run his own company for 25+ years before the economy shot his legs out from under him.  His response to my re-post of the blog on FaceBook sparked a lively debate between us over hors d’oeuvres tonite.

His argument comes from the perspective from that many some years of dealing with all kinds of hardball knuckleheads in his business (civil engineering), and it made me open my eyes.

Dave, welcome to my world!! If I had a dime for every discounted service I prepared in the hopes of landing the “big project”, I would be rich.

I call this the “call girl principal”…… The value of services rendered diminishes rapidly upon delivery of those services! Don’t take it personally and don’t enter into an agreement expecting a pat on the back just because you thought you did good work. The only way you will know if your services are valued is if they send you more work.

I have learned after 25 years in business that it is not about what you think is good, but what value your goods/service brings to THEM. Don’t assume you know what is best for them because you will be wrong every time. Your “rich” client didn’t get to where he was by being freindly and compassionate. He got there because of adherence to strict business rules.

What should you do? You should realize you’ve just learned a very valuable lesson and use it to strengthen your business acumen. Secondly, get a retainer!!!

His comment drew this remark from another LV friend:

I have only been in the business of providing a fee based service for a relatively short time but I too have learned that any service provided without a signed agreement, if not an agreement and a deposit, is a service provided for free.

Take solace in the fact that your willingness to work on ahandshake is noble, and I admire you for that. Although it does not provide the monetary reward you may have expected your talent and dedication will.

Thank you for sharing your story and opening it to the rest of us to comment.

CourVO

Thanks for all the constructive thoughts, people!

For the next 10 days…until January 31st, their long-standing price for Source-Connect Standard is going up.  Right now it’s at $395 with a 6-month service contract, but on Feb. 1st, it goes up to $650.

OUCH!!

Yeah, this would definitely be the time to move on it if you were going to.

Click HERE for more info, then click on “pricing” for the word on that deadline.

CourVO