To go as an addendum to the blog below, Fred North of NorthImaging.com adds this perspective, which just might sum up well the reaction a good many of us would have.

I've seen this debate on VO rates before. What you charge for your your services is up to you. What I charge for mine is up to me. If you want to work for less than me and you get the gig that's called competition. I accept that. I just have to be so compelling in my work that the client feels that he/she has to choose to pay me more. 

I'm guessing if someone is willing to voice a book for $75 the laws  of economics dicate that it will  sound like it was voiced by someone  who was paid $75 for voicing an entire book. About 10 pages in the enthusiasm will be gone and if the talent has weaknesses they will be amplified. It is not wrong or right, it is what the the client was willing to pay and the VO guy was willing to take. I suggest that everyone takes a deep breath and steps away from their dramatic proclomations about how it hurts the industry or will cause global warming to speed and instead learns now to compete.

The union talent in LA and New York will get much of the high dollar work. The rest of us will bust our butts to get as many of those deals as we can working remotely and then do a ton of local ads. I'm

tired of the whining. I've done some cheaper deals when I was slow and I'm guessing everyone has at some time even though they won't admit it. I push my rates as high as I can, but it's just good business to fit your rates to the market you're dealing with. Some of my markets are Rolls Royces, others are Chevy's. That's called doing business.

Fred

Thanks Fred…hope you don't mind that I posted this.  I've added you to my blogroll.

CourVO

From time to time I like to excerpt really wonderful discussions that show up on the Yahoo VO Forum. 
I'm going to do that again on this blog, and hope no one gets offended. 

The original post was a sarcastic complaint about a low-balling offer for someone to agree to voice a biographical audiobook.

Rich, at justmyvoice.com quoted the pay-for-play site quote:

"Biography audiobook. We're have a 3000 word manuscript for a biography audiobook on

president Barack Obama.
Budget:Low budget – USD 50-75
Recording Length:20-30 min…"
30 mins….for $75….hmmm if my math is correct, that's $0.04 per

minute.

The ensuing discussion ranged far and wide into the current economic situation, our place (as voice actors) IN that situation, and what is fair compensation for good work.

The "enthusiastic" (and usually wordy) Ed Helvey responded:

It's $2.50/min. for 30 minutes or $3.75/min. for 20 minutes. That's somewhat less then I would charge, but at least they were upfront about it and stated that it's low budget. We all have choices – we can take it if the money is enough to satisfy our need – or not if we feel our time is worth more.

He then digressed into this observation of the stagnant economy:

If there is a whole lot less buying, then there will be a whole lot less money available to those who advertise to spend on all facets of their businesses including advertising, that means that to get advertising work, those who do a lot of advertising vo work may not get as much or may have to join the restof the crowd and work for less if they want to work.

My mentor in VO, Frank Frederick, then jumped into the conversation:

Folks that fee is W-A-A-A-A-Y low… let's take a look at it from a different angle: 30 minutes @ approximately 125 words/minute = 3750

words @ $ 0.35/word = $1,312.50

Remember this is non-broadcast/non new media. Another way to look at this is the project is roughly 15 pages @ (let's say for expediency)$100.00/page = $1500.00.

The above figures are to be compared to the $75.00 offered. What is your choice for compensation?

This is where it gets interesting with Ed's next response:

You are absolutely right! And if the client can afford those fees, then certainly we should be paid those fees.  I like it when a potential client lets me know upfront where their budget is - as this prospective client did. It lets me know right away whether I should even respond to the offer or move on. Not every client is for every voice-over and vice-versa. We have to shop for projects where the clients who can pay our prices are and not waste our time (and the prospective client's time) trying to convince people without the financial ability to pay us money they don't have. You're right – it's about choices. If things aren't going well and you need to buy a bag or two of groceries, $75 might sound mighty good at that moment. If everything is comfortable and you're busy enough with work that pays the rates you feel compensate you fairly for your professional  experience and status, then certainly, this kind of job is best left to the guy who is hungry and needs the groceries. And, then there are some folks who choose not to leave a penny on the table and take everything they can get. It's all choices.

NOW we're getting to the crux of the matter!  Here's Frank again to respond to Ed:

The key however is to NOT sell YOURSELF short; and in so doing sell the rest of the industry short.

The fee you accept reflects on the entire industry. Everything you do as a VA is seen/heard by others and your actions if chosen poorly allow those other people to think the industry is entirely "that" way.

IF the client has a budget in mind and it's too low – then it is time to educate the client. Do not turn them down flatly, but let the client know how to plan a proper budget. Then you can work on a deal with the client.

If a VA is so hungry they will sell their soul for a small gig, then it is time for that VA to get a real job.

I cannot find it within myself to do a job simply for the "bragging rights". I must be able to stand up for my own rights and NEEDS. But almost as important is a VA should always be looking out for the entire industry and every VA who follows. Don't let US down by accepting a fee which is too low.

You already have an amount in mind (I promise you), but this discussion deserves the question: "How much are you worth?"

After a quick response in which Ed said he basically agreed… Frank explained why he feels so passionately about this subject:

With the plethora of P2P sites, part time VA's, recently former radio folk, etc. forcing the fees ever lower – my blood gets boiling.

There are five views on payment for any item or service: there is the price the client will pay, the cost the client wants to pay, there is the rate I desire, there is the compensation I will accept, and finally there is the figure agreed upon by both parties.

Please remember folks, what you as a VA not only affects you, but all others who work in our business' industry.

Back to Ed Helvey:

Basically, I agree with you in principle. In fact, it does behoove everyone to do their best to retain professional fees at what the market will bear.the end result is that we'll never get the largest number of people who can afford a very economical VA job to pay the high end prices, but some of them may eventually graduate to the mid-range and a few of them will make it to the high end. There is something for everybody – it just depends on whether you want to serve the Nissan Versa people and have lots and lots to do at low income per unit – or specialize in the Rolls Royce, sell 12 of them a year and make a king's ransom income.

Frank wasn't done.  I excluded a long analogy that Ed used to explain his position using the different level of car prices.  Frank answered with an analogy all his own involving popcorn.

Price your market. If a gig is willing to offer a smaller fee than you feel is appropriate – say no.

Taking what is offered when it is offensive is just plain wrong. Voicing an audio book for $75.00 is just plain WRONG. This rate  structure serves only the clients bottom line and I will bet their bottom line is far larger than the VA who accepts the job.

I have what I call the "Dollar Movie Theory" where getting a bunch of bodies in the seats for $1.00 or $2.00 each and selling a lot of popcorn and soda pop; pays off far quicker than if the theater charges $15.00/ticket and has only 20 people in the audience.

This Theory does not mean one does not charge for the popcorn and soda pop. It means you charge what the market is willing to pay – you simply have more bodies buying.

In the world of the VA, we do not have "popcorn and soda pop", so our fees must be based upon what the market will pay to watch the movie. Oftentimes I read the "audition requests" and shake my head in disgust as the client is of the variety who has the money – but will not part with any. The VA must now sell "popcorn and soda pop" without having any in his/her theater.

So how does a VA get bodies in the seats? That is a question which each VA must be willing ask and find an answer BEFORE settling for a low fee.

So how many bodies do you have in your theaters seats folks?

I like that analogy…but I'm still chewing on it.  In this friendly debate of wordsmiths, Ed came back with a creative conclusion:

Maybe the client is just getting up and running and really is short on working capital, but they have the potential of terrific growth – so maybe, it's a royalty arrangement that will work. Maybe it's delayed compensation. Maybe it's barter. Maybe the client can open other doors and send tons of credible referrals. So many possibilities. We each have to figure out which of the opportunities is in tune with our philosophies and business models. Some times we'll take it on the chin, but sometimes a door will open that we never would have had access to or even known existed.

I truly believe in today's world and especially today's economy, we have to open the windows of our mind, think outside the box and stimulate our creative juices. Some of us (I'm not one of them) will just sit there and have work roll in the door without much effort on our part. Most of us are going to have to work hard at creative marketing – maybe at a 90:10 ratio – 90% of our time is spent in some form of marketing and 10% is spent in actually doing the productive voice work that brings in the revenue. That ratio may get better with time if you're really good.

These are two men who've been around the block.  Their age and experience does not cast them outside a developing paradigm of pricing that is always fluid and redefined…rather THEY HELPED CREATE IT, and have an interest in still maintaining, even controlling it to the extent they can.

Part of that is explaining their point-of-view, and I think both did so eloquently.  I hope this synopsis has been helpful to you. 

If you want to read the entire thread, you can do so at:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Voiceovers/, but ya gotta join or belong to be able to read the messages.

I've also got a VO forum group started on Google.  Here's the address:  http://groups.google.com/group/voice-actors.  It's a younger group, but all quality members, and we love sharing info.  Join us won't you?

These groups are a gold mine of shared info.

CourVO