Word Gets Around…

…when you’re good.  And Paul Ruben is great (so he qualifies).

The “word” has it that Paul is (1) a seasoned, talented, and award-winning Audiobook narrator, and he is (2) gifted at sharing his craft.

Unhappily, I have never met Paul, nor even had a conversation with him…a situation I hope to rectify this year.

In the meantime — for those of you seeking fresh challenges to be better at storytelling — Paul may just be your next step (’cause we all agree you never stop learning, right?).

Check out this video of Paul at work, and then be sure to read below that for some information on where you can connect with Paul  in his next coaching session.

 

My friend, and  VO talent Denise Chamberlain tells me there are about 6 positions left in Paul’s next class, coming up on  April 28th.  You can visit Chamberlain’s site to get the registration link, and directly, here is also the link to all the information about Ruben’s late-April 2-day session in SoCal.

Finally, Paul frequently shares information generously in his blog and Social Media postings with tips and wonderful observations about the art of audiobook narrating.  Paul Ruben’s Blog.

His website: Tribeca Audio explains more about Paul and his amazing achievements.

Now you’ve got the word on Paul…what’re you going to do with it?

CourVO

The Audies Gala

The Audies are about the closest thing regular ole voice actors have to a national award.

Sure, a voice actor can also win an Emmy…but that’s for the Randy Kay’s, Melissa Disney’s, Joe Cipriano’s, and Tom Kane’s of the world.   The CLIO’s are certainly worthy of note, but again, the awards go to a host of other endeavours, and sometimes a voice actor actually gets some press.

But with the audies, a relative unknown can submit work, get nominated, and even win this prestigious award.  It’s all about the narrator.

Granted, it’s exclusively for the narration of  an audiobook, but God bless ‘em!  Audiobook narrators sit for 2-3 weeks, hours at a time to get the same pay that commercial voice-actors get for submitting a 30-second spot…so I find justice in that.

Here’s a link to the announcement for the upcoming Audies in June (tickets on sale now).

The Audies go hand-in-hand with the APAC conference and the BEA (Book Expo America) the day before.  An AudioBook feast!

I’ve been the victim of schedule conflicts for the past two years for this(these) event(s)…but I believe I’ll actually make it this year.

C ya there?

CourVO

Reading Out Loud

Before books or even papyrus, there was the ancient art of storytelling and re-telling…and the oral tradition of passing down knowledge from generation to generation.

Little wonder, then, that audiobooks are finding a resurgence (thanks in part to new, enabling technology).  It’s in our genes.

A wonderfully-written article breaks-out the reasons to a deeper level.  It’s called The Mind’s Ear.

Still not convinced that this may be a possible outlet for your talents?  Then try this article:  The Coming AudioBooks Boom (Sept. 2011)

Ready to get started?  This quote is probably a good reality-check:  “…Go home, go to your bookcase, shut your eyes, reach out, and grab a book. You don’t get to choose. Take that book and sit somewhere quiet and small, like a closet, and read out loud for three hours a day. If you have any stumbles, back up and start the sentence again. If you hit a word you don’t know how to pronounce, go look it up. Do that for three hours a day, for two weeks, and then, if you’re still interested, give me a call…”

See the entire blog article I wrote which included this quote:  R U VO Enuff?

If you’re still interested, sign-up for a weekend audiobook workship with Pat Fraley sometime.

Also, check out ACX.  Read this Blog:  http://www.courvo.biz/2011/08/q-a-w-acx.html

My thanks to Edoardo Ballerini for pointing out those two articles on the FB Group:  Professional AudioBook Narrators

CourVO

R U VO Enuff?…

…to handle an audiobook?

For a couple of years, now, various coaches, industry-watchers, and publishers have been flying the green flag for the “gold rush”  of jobs narrating audio-books.

It’s true…there are many opportunities for voice actors in this field.  That’s why Amazon’s—>Audible’s—>ACX service (AudioBook Creation Exchange) was launched in the first place.  Management at Audible claimed they were having trouble keeping enough fresh titles on the shelf for voracious listeners.  They needed more published audiobooks, and that meant they needed more narrators.

Voice Actors who hadn’t previously considered tackling the “long-format” rigors of audiobooks were willing to give it a try.

It’s not for everybody.

I’ve seen seasoned and successful commercial voice actors, promo and imaging VO’s, and Radio/TV guys throw up their hands in frustration after the first chapter of an audiobook.

Aside from the maarathon-like endurance you must develop, there are the quirks of the audiobook publishing industry to deal with.  These are people who don’t necessarilly look favorably upon people who are known to be “voice-overs”.  In their minds, a VO means an ex-DJ, or at best a :30 commercial “announcer”.  AudioBook Publishers are looking for classicly trained ACTORS, and thespians…serious DRAMA types.

Taking the quandary even further is the maze of creative arrangements that pass for compensation in this field.  More and more “revenue share” deals are taking hold.  In a revenue share proposal, you narrate the whole transcript, send it to the publisher, they promote and distribute the product, and when it sells, you get a certain percentage of that sale (usually a high percentage)…but until then…you get nothing for your hours of work.  There are all sorts of creatively-designed percentage packages being worked out with revenue share.  Some publishers might offer some hard cash as incentive on top of revenue share.  (ACX has done this with some success).

Further, it’s notoriously difficult to place yourself on the radar screen of an AudioBook Publisher (at least the good ones).  I suppose like anything else, it requires some chutzpah, persistence, talent, and marketing skills…but those skills are a different tool set than what you need to land commercial or e-learning production jobs.  Breaking into Audiobooks means going back to low-budget jobs, just to earn your stripes.

Typically, pay comes in the form of a certain dollar amount per-fiinished-hour.  $50-$100 for starters…and on up the scale to $500+ per-finished-hour for the Scott Bricks and George Guidalls of the world.  Be ready to edit your own stuff for that price too…at least on the beginner-range of jobs.

All this is pretty well summed-up in a great article from yesterday on BACKSTAGE, written by Andrew Salomon. Growing Audio Book Industry Offers Rewards and Challenges for Actors.

Here’s the best quote from Sean Pratt, in the article: “…Go home, go to your bookcase, shut your eyes, reach out, and grab a book. You don’t get to choose. Take that book and sit somewhere quiet and small, like a closet, and read out loud for three hours a day. If you have any stumbles, back up and start the sentence again. If you hit a word you don’t know how to pronounce, go look it up. Do that for three hours a day, for two weeks, and then, if you’re still interested, give me a call…”

There are plenty of satisfying advanatages to being an audiobook narrator: you are at the mic every day, which at least creates the illusion that you’re “always working”.  If you fancy yourself a story-teller more than a product/service spokesman/woman, then this is DEFINITELY for you.  Any sort of theatre background helps… and the character development needed to complete a book with dialogue and male/female conversations stretches your skills in ways you never imagined.  Growth comes with each book.

If you want to know more, please visit the Scoop.it site I curate daily with articles from the web on this very topic.  EVERYTHING AUDIOBOOKS.

My thanks to Sean Allen Pratt for posting the link to the BackStage article on the “AudioBook Crowd” FaceBook Group that I belong to.

CourVO

 

 

 

Q & A w/ ACX

Launched to the public in May, Audible’s new ACX (Audibook Creation Exchange) seems to be a win-win-win.

Audible realized it was having trouble keeping enough fresh AudioBook titles in supply for their voracious listeners… Voice Actors are always seeking new opportunities…and publishers wanted access to fresh narrators and distribution channels.

ACX solves all those issues in a three-way mix.

For months leading up to the launch of this new site  — a site that matches all parties in the production of an audiobook — Audible ran the service in Beta. While much of what it conceived was very well designed, that Beta period served the online audiobook store well.  Beta narrators pointed out things Audible needed real-world experience with, and the process revealed economies of scale that prompted some adjustments.

Jason Ojalvo

With all of 2+ months under their belt, I approached Jason Ojalvo, who launched and now runs ACX for Audible, with a few questions about the state of affairs today. He was very forthcoming, and the result is below.  Thanks, Jason!

1)   Now that ACX has been up and running for a few months, what adjustments to the website interface are you prioritizing?..and  even with all your planning and preparation, what other changes did you realize you had to make early on in the program?

 We’ve been fortunate to have so much great feedback from partners and new ACX users since launch. We’ve always planned to enhance search on ACX, and we’re working on that, so audiobook narrators/producers can find the most appropriate projects for their voice.  We also are improving usability of the site so that our narrators/producers can make the smartest decisions about which projects to audition for.  Additional areas of focus for rights holders (and those producers who choose the “royalty share” option) include making sales data richer and more visible.  Like any great website and service, ACX continues to be a work in progress and gets better and easier to use every day.

 2)   Are you getting participation from the big name publishers you had hoped-for from the start?  Where do the bulk of your titles come from?

 We are. Partners at launch already included Random House and HarperCollins, in addition to top literary agencies like Janklow & Nesbit, Writers House, and Levine Greenberg.  Since launch, numerous publishers, literary agencies and individual authors have posted titles, in many cases returning to the site to post additional titles—which we believe indicates they’ve had a good experience. And we’re adding new rights holders every week.

 3)   What would you say is the percentage of narrators who are also producing the audiobook they narrate?

 We think a little more than half of narrators are also producing books they narrate. As you know, more and more narrators are embracing the production side as the costs of setting up a home studio diminish. Some create retail-ready audiobooks from their home studio while others do most of the work but then farm out the editing, which is very time-consuming and detail-oriented.  There are also plenty of seasoned producers, in the traditional sense, on ACX who piece together a retail-ready audiobook by subcontracting everyone: the engineer, the narrator or narrators, the editor, a QC person, etc.

4)   Does it seem that narrators are erring on the side of agreeing to the Royalty-Share Deal, or the pay-per-finished-hour option?

 We’re pleased to report that there’s plenty of activity on both fronts. We believe this speaks to the quality and range of material available on ACX to perform, and the flexibility inherent in a user-driven marketplace.  While pay-per-finished-hour is the more traditional model, you have to remember that a Royalty Share deal is really more of a full revenue share deal, because the narrator/producer gets not only half of the royalty payments, but also half of those $25 Bounty payments, which have the potential to be much more lucrative than the royalties.

 5)   Can you provide any figures for the range of compensation for those accepting the pay-per-finished-hour option?

 We’ve only been humming about two months, but so far are estimating that between $200 and $500 per finished hour will be the average. Given that the average book is 10 hours long, that means roughly $3500 per audiobook. {Ed. note: Jason later adds:  “…$200 – $500 PFH is for *complete* audiobook production, not just the narrator’s fee. Rates on ACX are soup to nuts to create a retail ready audiobook. Engineering, narrating, editing, QC, mastering….”}

 6)   Can a narrator be approved as an “Audible Approved Producer” with fewer than 25 titles to their name?  If so, how?

 In general, no… but it has happened, especially if a narrator has verifiable experience delivering great audiobooks as a producer (not just as the narrator on an audiobook), and shows commitment to the craft. And if a narrator/producer has created a number of titles via ACX where productions have been smooth and error-free and the rights holder was extremely happy, that narrator/producer will be in the running for the “Audible Approved” designation.

 7)   How confidently can you assert that every audition submitted is heard by the rights holder, or the person screening the auditions?

 The fact that the rights holders on ACX now were either partners at launch or early adopters thereafter speaks to their commitment to audiobooks and to expanding the audience for their authors. Because of this, we believe rights holders on ACX are vigilant about screening auditions and finding the best fit for their books.  We also know that participating publishers and literary agencies sometimes send their favorite auditions to the book’s author to weigh in.

 8)   Are most rights holders or publishers willing to negotiate on a final compensation agreement?…or do they view their offer as final?

 Rights holders and producers can use ACX’s internal messaging system to communicate on agreement terms before a formal offer is ever sent, and are welcome to set up direct email or phone contact to discuss terms further if they’d like. Thus far, our feedback indicates that this system is working, with users coming to terms for pay-for-production and royalty share as well as “off-the-grid” deals with audiobook publishers who want to license a book’s audio rights directly instead of producing it on ACX.

 9)   You recently made a stipend offer to your original beta-testing authors, and those who are Approved Producers.  Did that incentive have the desired result for you, and will you be offering other incentives along the way?

 It did; the stipend offer, which is a non-recoupable “thank you” payment to narrator/producers to incentivize them to try a royalty share deal, precipitated quite a flurry of activity among narrator/producers and resulted in numerous offers.  We recently opened up a similar stipend offer of $100 per finished offer – which is of course on top of ACX’s escalator royalties and $25 Bounties – to all ACX narrator/producers.  The stipend is available on a select list of about 200 titles, outlined on the ACX website. We’ll likely continue to provide incentives like this after these current offers expire at the end of August.

 10)  When do you expect to be able to allow narrators to be able to import books they’ve already narrated, and that appear in the Audible listing, on their profile.

 We’ve heard this suggestion a number of times, and it’s an enhancement we’re working on.

 11)  What have I not asked that you would like to impress upon narrators who are using your system, or who hope to land a contract?

 For actors looking for work, ACX provides a convenient, creatively fulfilling solution that they can arrange to fit their schedule. The system and ACX agreements are set up to protect producers/narrators as well as authors and other rights holders.  Actors can post unlimited samples to show off their variety, and they can audition for as many titles as they want to. Quality checks are built into the production process, so actors won’t have to do 100 takes.  ACX also enables actors to communicate directly with authors and publishers, and it represents the possibility of an ongoing revenue stream for actors, enabling them to earn royalties long after a book is finished.  Or if they want to work in the traditional way, and earn a one-time payment for their narration work, they can do that on ACX, too.  The buzz is that ACX is one of the most empowering services ever created for actors. 

(note: I offered a question about ACX’s relationship to unions, and Jason says he is waiting on the final wording from that arrangement)

Jason Ojalvo is Vice President at Audible (an Amazon.com subsidiary).  He launched – and now runs – the groundbreaking ACX (Audiobook Creation Exchange) service which connects voiceover actors with great books to create more audiobooks for the ever-growing base of audiobook listeners.  He also oversees Audible’s audiobook production department which in 2011 received a Grammy nomination and 15 Audie Award nominations. Ojalvo holds an MBA from Columbia University in New York.

CourVO

ACX Incentive

The launch of Audible’s site for narrators in May sent ripples through the audiobook business.  The blog I wrote about ACX was one of my most-visited articles.

Check back in a few days, I’m working on some Q & A with one of the principal officers you’ll want to read.  In the meantime, the folks at ACX are offering some meaningful incentives you may want to consider as you decide on auditioning.  (note, offer assumes you’re “approved”…See below the release they sent me).

The offer below is a creative tool.  Overall, the compensation model ACX has devised is not perfect, but shows they did plenty of research and consideration before launch.  It reveals what I believe to be the widest spectrum of choices for narrators seeking more work, and hoping to find a pay solution that works for them.

ACX’s limited incentive plan:

To celebrate the first hundred ACX audiobooks in production, we have a new special offer for you, THIS OFFER IS ONLY FOR PRODUCERS WHO ARE EITHER “AUDIBLE APPROVED” OR WERE PART OF OUR BETA-TESTING PROGRAM EARLIER THIS YEAR.

If you accept a Royalty Share offer on any ACX title by August 31st, it comes not only with the usual extra $100 per-finished-hour stipend (e.g. $1,000 for a 10-hour audiobook), but we’ve sweetened the pot by making your second Royalty Share deal earn a $200 per-finished-hour stipend (e.g. $2,000 for a 10-hour audiobook), and your third Royalty Share deal earn a $225 per-finished-hour stipend (e.g. $2,250 for a 10-hour audiobook). See Stipend Offer Terms and Conditions for complete details and requirements. The stipend is, of course, in addition to the Royalties and Bounties you earn on sales of the audiobook. Here’s how it’ll work, step by step:

  1. Choose any book being offered as a Royalty Share deal. We especially recommend titles from this list, which were hand-picked by Audible’s editors for their good sales potential
  2. Submit your best audition
  3. If you get a Royalty Share offer on one (or more) of these titles, accept the offer.
  4. Upon your completion and approval of the audiobook, submit an invoice to ACX for $100 or $200 or $225 X the number of finished hours
  5. We pay you that fee
  6. You also earn half of the 50 – 90% escalator royalty on each sale of the audiobook (i.e. 25% – 45% as outlined here)
  7. You also earn half of any $25 bounty generate by downloads of the audiobook, as outlined here

You can get this per-finished-hour stipend offer on up to three productions, so don’t be shy about auditioning. Good luck!

Best,
The ACX Team

Need Help Editing?

Yesterday’s announcement that Audible.com was launching it’s own online marketplace for narrators, publishers, authors, and distributors had good many narrators salivating  (see blog link below).

All that work!  Lots of opportunity!  Right…but it’s all long-format, and unless you’ve got a really sweet deal, you’ll be expected to go back through those hours of recordings and do all the editing in post-production.

Some would rather not…which means you’ll have to “farm it out” to another party.  But who?  Who would do that?

Well, narrator, Voice Actor, and friend Karen Commins posed that very question to the AudioBook Community online forum, and the resulting thread produced a great list of possible editors.  You may not be a member of that forum, so I’m reprinting the list below in the spirit that most on the list would want the exposure.

HOME STUDIO NARRATOR RESOURCES

EDITING/MASTERING/QC
Becky Nieman
[email protected]

Zach Herries
Mosaic Audio President
323-306-4080
400 S. Berendo St. #220, Los Angeles, CA 90020

Cindy Jo (CJ) Hinkleman
(818)833-7131
[email protected]

Stan Bush
(818)625-1413
[email protected]

Paul Fowlie (also Studio Design Consultant)
Common Mode, Inc.
296 Route 10 West
East Hanover, NJ 07936
973-428-3848 office
973-428-3824 fax
973-879-3305 – Paul’s cell/text

Jeffrey Kafer
http://audiobook-voice-over.com
805-285-2337

Cesar Inserny
Watermark Audio
T:  713.501.3969
E:  [email protected]

http://www.watermarkaudio.com

Brett Barry, Silver Hollow Audio
Chichester, NY
845-688-7333
[email protected]
www.silverhollowaudio.com

John Cabrera
[email protected]
Tel-917-584-2503
I have worked with Audible.com

Susan & Colin Smart
[email protected]
editing, quality control/proofing, mix/mastering
houses we’ve worked with: audible, Studio Now, Redwood Audio, Chelsea House

STUDIO CREATION/DESIGN
George Whittam
ElDorado Recording Services
http://eldorec.com/studio-packages/
[email protected]

310-574-2804
SKYPE:  soundgun

…and let me add my own referral:  Josh Wilson –  [email protected]

…also:  Roy B. Yokelson of Antland Productions
www.antlandproductions.com
[email protected]
917-642-9999 or 973-338-7338

…and:  Serious Vanity Music
913-499-7644
[email protected] – Narration, Editing, Quality Control, Mastering, Music, and Effects
http://www.facebook.com/l/aa800/www.seriousvanity.com/seriousvanitymusic

…not to mention Karen Souer
[email protected]
http://about.me/KarenSouer

…and her brother Eric Souer
[email protected]
704-491-7671.

[added8-31-11: GREG LAWRENCE  I  Producer / Senior Engineer  I  905.505.0170
OnPurposeProductions  I  www.onpurposeproductions.ca ]

CourVO

ACX: Audition on/for Audible

Apparently, the hunger for audiobooks is insatiable.  Even the undisputed leader in downloadable audiobooks — Audible.com — cannot keep up with its readers’ demands for new material.

Voice acting coaches have long been beating that drum…saying some of the biggest growth areas in Voice Overs are in audiobooks.

Audible itself has consistently been in the business of facilitating recordings for narrators with their own studios, but they claim they STILL can’t keep up with the demand.

Hence ACXThe AudioBook Creation Exchange.  Think of it roughly as a Voices.com of Audiobooks, with special enhancements.  The site premieres today (5-12-11) to the general public.

Once you create an account and complete your profile, you can post audiobook demos, and begin auditioning!  (there’s more to it, though…read on).

Audible has been working on this effort for quite some time, and it’s been in Beta for many months.  A few of us have had the luxury of playing with the format, and doing some early auditioning…kicking the tires, so to speak and feeding back with suggestions.  We all had to sign Non-Disclosure  Agreements (now released from that).

Audible (an Amazon.com company) did its homework on this one.  They’ve worked their considerable influence with name publishers to be a major portal for bidding-out audiobook work for narrators.  While at this point it there is no effort to filter the talent who are allowed on the site, Audible is confident the rigors of audiobook auditioning will separate the wheat from the chaff.

Audible has provided a wealth of information and explainers with this new service.  The site is replete with help files, explanations, charts, graphs, testimonials, examples, Q&A, FAQ files and more.

They’ve thought-out their compensation packages too…on a very basic level, here are the options:

ROYALTY SHARE – with exclusive distribution to Audible

PAY FOR PRODUCTION (Flat Fee) – with exclusive distribution to Audible

PAY FOR PRODUCTION (Flat Fee) – with non-exclusive distribution rights to Audible

Audible is stressing their associations with major publishers.  They claim to be able to put YOU in the pipeline to the big boys.  The unstated promise is that Audible gets you in the door, and if you do good work, then maybe the publishers will begin hiring you as a regular narrator for them.  It’s a big carrot to a lot of people hoping to break into the business.  In addition to the public domain and other titles that Audible posted to ACX and made available for production, titles from a couple of major publishers will be showing up on ACX, 1,000 titles so far.

Audible stated to it’s Beta narrators:  “To help get the wheels turning on Royalty Share deals, we’ll be paying the narrator/producer a bonus $100 per finished hour when the book produced under a Royalty Share deal is done.”  ‘Not sure if that offer is still good, but it’s worth asking about.

Regarding the Royalty model  (listed on the ACX site) basically is a generous 50 – 90% escalator royalty of which you get half… so that translates to 25% to 45% of Audible’s net revenues for you.   Plus you’ll get a bonus payment of $12.50 each time your audiobook is the first purchase by a new AudibleListener member.  So if you are the producer of the book, it really pays for you to promote it through your social media networks.

There are a number of innovative features of ACXs payment system:

  • Get paid more. The ACX escalator royalty system pays from 25 – 90%. The range is 25% – 70% for Rights Holders who choose the non-exclusive distribution option, 50% – 90% for rights Holders who choose exclusive distribution option, or 25% – 45% each for Rights Holders and Producers who enter into a Royalty Share agreement. The more units you sell, the higher royalty percentage you earn per unit.
  • And extra $25 per unit sold “thank you”. To encourage you to promote yourself and your new audiobook, Ausdible is offering you an extra $25 each time your audiobook is the first purchase made by a new Audible Listener member.
  • Work directly with Audible, a leading audiobook retailer.  By working with Audible, you’re not getting a-piece-of-a-piece… you’re working directly with a retailer so your royalty is calculated as a percentage is of what the customer pays, not the wholesale price.
  • Get paid more often. ACX pays you monthly, whereas most book retailers pay only quarterly.

Once an ACX audiobook is produced, approved by the Rights Holder, and delivered to ACX, Audible provides powerful distribution of the audiobook through three retail industry leaders: Audible.com, Amazon.com, and iTunes.

Across the board, the aim is to amplify the business opportunities for authors, publishers, and other Rights Holders, as well as narrators, studio professionals, and other Producers.

Sound good?  There’s much much more info on the ACX site.  Audible’s Blog has the official announcement. Also, there is no subscription fee.  Check it out!  (see video below)

Here’s another take on this announcement from the site: e-reads.com.

CourVO


Audie Nominees Announced

This is a big deal to a lot of people who toil in the storytelling, narrating, and long-format branch of the voice over family tree.  In fact, the Audio Publishers Association (APA) would probably not even agree that they’re associated with voice-overs…they more identify with actors…so voice-actors is better, I guess.

Indeed, many of the names nominated for this year’s awards are recognizable actors for film and TV credits…so this is no light-weight list.

Click on the APA link announcing the nominees to see how deep, broad, and textured is the list of entries.

CourVO

Fraley Freebie

November 2008

Wanna get into audiobooks?  Pat Fraley’s a master at them…and lucky for us…he’s one of the top, if not THE top audiobook coach anywhere.  And not just Pat, but all the incredible talents, and producers, and first-rate narrators he always brings in to teach WITH him.

Pat’s weekend audiobook workshops “The Billion-dollar Read” are career-changers for the attendees.  You walk away with demos good enough to land you jobs, a head packed full of ideas for how to market yourself and enough talent-tips to chew on for years.  You’ve just met some of the top people in the business, and you’ve gained Pat as a mentor.

I speak from personal experience.  I completed his workshop in November of 2008, and I’m a working audiobook narrator, listed on Audible, APA, and currently working on two books, with several more on the horizon.

Pat’s approach is no-nonsense, although he has a lot of fun (always!) with his students and his teaching methods.

Please watch the following video Pat’s generously sharing everywhere.  It distills down his proven “Formula For Getting Audiobook Narration Work” to about a 15-minute video presentation with Pat himself narrating.  His workshops are always priced reasonably, but you won’t find a better value than these 15 minutes.

Thanks, Pat…!!

CourVO